Honda 1300 Coupe Forum
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 on: July 12, 2020, 03:35:53 AM 
Started by RichardH - Last post by IanT
Many years ago i was told cb750 valve stem seals fitted I have a had a valve regrind at a motor cycle repair shop and valve stem seals fitted plus some new and used caps fitted. Motor has been run but car has not on the road yet
Ian Tuttle

 on: May 06, 2020, 10:13:44 PM 
Started by RobertP - Last post by RobertP
As most would know there are a few engine components that are different between the 7 and the 9  apart from the obvious induction system, one of those is the camshaft, below is a photo of both a 9 and 7 camshaft. The difference at first glance is that the 9 shaft is slightly thinner and measuring them at a non-machined point the 9 has a diameter of 21mm and the 7 is 25.4mm, the weight of the 9 is 2.67kg and the 7 is 2.81kg, one has to ask why would Honda go to the trouble of using 2 different castings to machine the same item, the weight difference in negligible. One possible, but unlikely, reason is that the 7 could have an optional a/c compressor connected and more strength was needed, the 9 shaft has 'A-1' cast on it and the 7 has 'C-3'. You would also expect the 9 cam to be 'hotter' but my observations and measurement suggest otherwise, the distance from the heel to the nose of the lobe is 38.4mm and is the same on the inlet and exhaust on both shafts, so lift is identical, I was able to reasonably accurately compare(not measure) the lobe separation angle and they are the same. Looking closely at the asymmetric lobes they appear identical on both shafts, not very scientific I admit but if there is subtle differences to the lobes then I can't see it     

 on: April 24, 2020, 07:02:22 PM 
Started by RobertP - Last post by RobertP
These photos show the difference in length between a new and worn cam chain

 on: March 31, 2020, 09:56:01 PM 
Started by RichardH - Last post by RichardH
I've written to six manufacturers. Only Enginepro responded with a potential and ultimately referred me to Nason's in Sydney. A friend with a Nissan FJ20ET engine also checked and found the seal for his is very similar.
I ordered Nason's suggestion and Nissan equivalents. I'm still waiting for some info so this isn't conclusive.

The Nissan seal, as supplied, seems almost ideal except for the additional length. There's also no internal step as in the original. From the spec sheet
Stem OD  7.00
Guide OD 12.00
VSS Height 15.40
VSS Width 14.40

What I don't have is a guide or the ability to check, as my car's 100km away. Can anyone tell me what the height of the guide above head in the 1300 is?

The shorter "unknown application" seal is much shorter as you see, but may be a contender. The difference in seal diameter is interesting, they're all supposed to be for 7 mm stems, so my 1300 sample must be very worn or Honda made them a looser fit, maybe....

One of these may be "ideal" but I will confirm when I'm sure I can recommend one.

Please add your insights and/or guide info!

ElringKlinger went to the trouble of searching by size and came up with this (thanks to them!):
Manufacturer: ELRING
Part Number: 112.593
Height [mm]: 12,7
Diameter 2 [mm]: 11,5 (ID)
Diameter 1 [mm]: 7 (Stem Dia,)
Diameter 3 [mm]: 16 (OD)
Material: ACM (Polyacrylate)
For Opel/Vauxhall - it's not steel encased but the measurements are extremely close.

 on: March 28, 2020, 04:16:33 AM 
Started by RichardH - Last post by RichardH
I moulded the internal cavity of the seal and rechecked/redrew the dimensions.

There are significant changes to the cross-section drawing, now 'REVB'. I previously thought there was a retaining recess, but after a more thorough clean and in better light, I see there isn't. The cup part is cylindrical above the lower angled lip to the upper seating step.

Given the improved representation, it may be that a more experienced person can recall a possible alternative which doesn't require machining the valve guide.

 on: March 24, 2020, 10:19:12 PM 
Started by RichardH - Last post by RichardH
Ian Wright has kindly sent me a valve, valve stem seal and the cap. They're not the same as the CB 450 (by a long shot).

Seal and cap images are attached below, as well as a "roughly" dimensioned drawing of the seal.

The seal seems to be longer than most of the same shape. Though very similar to many, I expect the dimensions, including internals like the seating recess are different to most I've located. Honda D series engines are roughly 5.5 mm, the 1300's are approximately 7.0 mm.

Ian was able to recover seals he already had (in parts motors etc.). He noted he doesn't bother replacing the upper cap, as it gets in the way of most repairs and adjustments and is of limited functionality.

The seal seems to be another of those unobtainable 1300 parts which, though inexpensive if available, can cost many hours searching for  or perhaps improvising.

Any suggestions or known substitutes? It would be great to get a sticky thread going on obscure suppliers, known substitutes and proven workarounds!

 on: March 21, 2020, 07:18:00 PM 
Started by RichardH - Last post by RichardH
I'm hoping to reduce the heavy smoking of my recent coupe 7 acquisition by replacing the valve seals and caps so I can road test it. I've only removed the rocker cover for this as yet (below). It looks like a fair amount of carbon deposit on most surfaces. The smoke is very thick, pale grey and has a lot of unburnt fuel.

The shop manual's not really clear enough and there are no parts dimensions, however from some research, it looks as if the parts described as the seal and cap are similar to the Honda CB450 motorcycle.

The CB450 stems are apparently 7.0 mm. Has anyone had experience replacing the caps and seals? Do the CB450 parts fit? Any alternatives?
The CB 450 parts seem to be as follows (from CMS and a few other motorcycle suppliers):
Cap, valve guide: 14791-283-020 (The terminology is slighly ambiguous)
Seal, valve stem: 14791-319-005
Images below.

The 1300 Coupe shop manual cites the stem and guide diameters as:
Inlet: 6.975 mm
Exhaust: 6.945 mm
Valve guide: 7.0 mm (limit 7.03mm)

The 1300 Coupe parts list on pages E51 and E52 has the following parts numbers.
Cap, valve: 12217-590-303
Seal, valve stem: 12210-590-000

There's an o-ring seal mid way on the valve guide but the guide has to be removed, not on the immediate agenda.


 on: March 08, 2020, 07:21:13 PM 
Started by RobertP - Last post by RobertP
Page 180 of the workshop manual describes how to remove the cooling fan using the special tool, it also says that if this tool is unavailable then it can be done by inserting the bolt loosely hitting it with a hammer and pulling on the fan at the same time. Well all I can say to that method is 'Good Luck'.  The fan is jammed on tight and requires plenty of effort. After doing a bit of research I found out that the required thread (30mm x1.5) was used for some hydraulic fittings so was able to obtain blocking plug with that thread from a supplier (Pirtek), drilled a hole in the centre and using a long 12mm bolt and nut made a suitable tool. It works the same as a bicycle crank remover but on a slightly larger scale but it requires a lot of effort and, be warned, because the shaft is tapered it releases suddenly with a loud bang.   

 on: February 25, 2020, 03:01:46 PM 
Started by RichardH - Last post by RichardH
Yeah, it's seems sufficient but not comprehensive.

I have yet to do any significant work on my 1300 '7'. I rebuilt a Peugeot 403 (except gerabox) in the '70s from their manual - very, very comprehensive. Later, I camper-converted a Morris LD5 (like old Mr Whippy vans - bad choice): That manual had chapters on metalwork techniques such as panel shrinking (with asbestos pulp...!).

I'll post in the Oil Cooler topic when I have pics/info on mine. I note the cooler is in the 1970 Parts List that Lindsay scanned, and not as an optional part. I have a 1971 Shop Manual as well as the 1970 one I scanned, they're identical.

 on: February 24, 2020, 11:19:22 PM 
Started by RobertP - Last post by RobertP
I decided to post this comment after downloading and printing a couple of test pages of Richard H's excellent workshop manual. One of the pages I printed was page 102 covering the oil tank and was reminded that nowhere in this manual is the oil cooler mentioned. I presume that is was not included in the early models or may only be fitted to cars in a warmer climate. The oil cooler is a bypass type and only a portion actually flows through the cooler even when the engine is hot. The flow through the cooler is regulated by a thermostat and as these devises are prone to failure I purchased a NOS one from CMS in the Netherlands, I did test the old one in boiling water and it still seemed to work but would you trust a 50year old thermostat in a water cooled engine, I think not. This devise works almost the opposite to a water thermostat in that when the engine is cold the scavenged oil flows freely around the bulb in the thermostat and into the tank, as it heats up it opens and uncovers the port to the cooler at he same time restricting the free flow to the tank thereby sending some of the oil through the cooler, therefore for the cooler to work properly the thermostat must be functional. Removing the thermostat is a bad idea because the hot oil will just flow unrestricted straight into the tank with no means of directing some to the cooler, also blocking off the thermostat housing and sending 100% of the oil through the cooler also may not work because the dinky little cooler probably can't handle the flow.   

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